Ah yes, it’s the week of interesting horns on eBay. Today’s offering is that is being offered on the world’s largest online auction site.Source: eBay.comThis is how the seller describes this classic, vintage sax: H.N. White King Super 20 Silver Sonic Tenor SaxophoneGold Leaf Engraving on Sterling Bell- See Film Of Horn!——————————————————————————–You are bidding on an H.N. White King Super 20 Sterling Bell Tenor Saxophone1265This horn is a player’s dream. Thoroughly gone over by sax genius Al McLean, this instrument served as his main horn for The Chateauguay Tenors’ recent weekend concert engagement that is captured on film. McLean carefully inspected the instrument, changed pads as needed, and made sure it was playing to his high standards.This is quite a rare Silver Sonic, featuring the desireable gold leaf bell engraving.
The instrument is in cosmetically good condition, with normal aesthetic wear. Sound is magnificent, huge, open, dark and vibrant. Bid with confidence, this is a great saxPlease click below to see this horn at work in the hands of Al McLean.I’m not sure what the #1265 in the brackets is meant to signify, because it isn’t a serial number for any King saxophones, and certainly not for this Silver Sonic. As far as I can see, the seller actually doesn’t provide even a partial serial number for this horn.Source: eBay.comSource: eBay.comSource: eBay.comSource: eBay.comSource: eBay.comIn this closeup shot of the engraving you can see that it is actually a post-H.N. This sax was made after the company was sold, and the plant was moved. These Kings are good. I have owned and played 3 King Super 20 tenors.
The best one was a 293XXX (-49?)with underslung octave key, triangular cloth protection/body-bell brace, mother of pearl on pk and sk, silver neck, double socket. I think these models had hardsoldered tonholes? I couldn’t resist the offer! The second was a std Super 20 from 67-68 428XXX like above but not a silver sonic.
A good sax but not as good as the “real” Super 20. The last one I blought new. I big mistake. It was a late King Super 20 tenor 871XXX (c -83 UMI) model2416K with high F#.
A big problem with that sax was that the neckjoint was to small. I have met other saxplayers who also are on Super 20 from the same time and all saxes, more or less, seems to suffer from this. Can the neck come from one manufactor, the tube from another? The sax was not bad but to call it a Super 20 was IMO wrong.I bought my first Martin, a “The Martin Baritone” -62 from Paul Cohen, NJ, in 1984 and I mounth later I found a “The Martin Magna Tenor” here in Sweden, so I said farewell to King saxes. The Martins saxes are the best saxes for me. I don’t remember mine having a neck joint issue per say, but mine did have another issue.
The palm keys were quite out of tune (flat I think, but I’m not 100% sure anymore, that was along time ago) and lipping them in was a pain in the ass.Someone recently contacted me who had the opportunity to buy a Super 20 almost the same vintage as mine (1980) and I warned him of this. I believe he said he encountered the same issue when he play-tested the horn.It’s funny but Pete Hales will tell you that his experience with the old King saxophones is that they have tuning issues.
I don’t know how far back you have to go to find these issues, because my 1950 Zeph plays perfectly in tune. It is 100% in tune over the full range of the horn. The only tenor that I have that is just as easy to play in tune in my Mark VI.Perhaps Pete has only played really old Kings, or really new ones. Since my sample size is quite small, I can’t really comment intelligently on sopranos, altos, baris, or even many tenors.
I have only played a handful of Zephyrs, a few truly vintage Super 20s, and my Super 20 circa 1980. King made horns for so many years, and their models changed in design that things could potentially have varied greatly in the intonation department.Pete Are you lurking about? Care to comment and share you thoughts. I’m curious about your experiences, and opinions on these vintage American classics.
The Kings Super 20s I have owned and played in tune as far as I could hear!! But when I played with other saxplayers and horns (Yani, Yama, Selmer ) they used to complain about the fact that my horn was out of tune. I was in tune.
But the tone of my King Super 20 was different to a modern horn! I was also playing on a Larsen ss mouthpiece. The toneheight is one thing and the tonecolour is another thing or????Yes, King did a lot of changes on their saxes over the years. When I played my late Super 20 I didn’t get a King feeling.
It’s different with Martins. If I play a late “The Martin” (Comm III) I have a simular feeling/tone as when I blow a HC (Comm I).It would have been very intersting to have the tube and bell from a late King 20 tenor w high F# compared to similar horn from the same time. When did King add the high F# to their saxes? To add a high F# usally need a new taper and bore. Altos often need alteration to accommodate a high F# (longer body, shorter neck), but tenors, not so much.
The Mark VI alto is an exception, as it already had the longer body and shorter neck necessary to accommodate a high F# before one was ever included. Tenors though — all the ones I’ve run across have adequate body tube to add a high F# if desired, without having to re-design the whole setup. Baris, of course, have their coils and short necks and have no issues as far as adding a high F# as an afterthought. One-piece sopranos also have no issues for obvious reasons, but it might be a problem for a vintage curvy!The other option is to do it the way Jupiter did on the JAS-767. They simply cut the high F# tone hole right through the lower 1/3 of the tenon, and cut a notch in the neck’s tenon as well to accommodate the hole. It’s not a PRETTY solution, but it’s a perfectly functional one.
The very first saxophone made in the United States was built by Gus Buescher (properly pronounced Bisher) in 1888 when he was a foreman for Conn. In 1894 Gus Buescher left Conn to start his own company, The Buescher Band Instrument Company. For many years, Buescher saxophones, as well as their other brass and wind instruments, competed well with Conn, Martin, King and Selmer. Buescher saxophones are noted for their rich and smooth sound. Sigurd Rascher, the well known classical saxophonist, author and teacher played a Buescher Tru-Tone throughout his playing career, and in jazz, Johnny Hodges sweet and soaring tone was played on a series of Bueschers, most notably an Aristocrat and a 400. Sonny Rollins also played a Buescher Aristocrat tenor early on such recordings as 'The Bridge'.
Later on, Selmer bought the company and that ended their production of high quality professional horns. At the end of WWII Buescher commemorated it with the production of the 400 line.
Its model run continued until the 1970's, but the best and most sought-after models are the first and second series, with a Top Hat and Cane engraving. It also featured bell keys that were positioned to the rear of the bell, rather than to the left side like other American saxophones, or to the right like Selmer.
The bell flare was also larger than any other saxophone, the prototype to many modern saxophones today. It also sported an underslung octave key similar to the King Super 20. Johnny Hodges had a custom-made model with more elaborate engraving on the bell and neck. King saxophones, as well as their other brass and wind instruments were manufactured by the H.N. White Company of Cleveland, Ohio. Later on, they moved production to Eastlake, Ohio, but it is the King Cleveland made saxophones which are considered the best. Though they made saxophones early on, it wasn't until they made the King Zephyr in the 1930's that they made any saxophones of consequence.
The Zephyr and the Super 20 are saxophones with big, bright sounds that are considered the epitome of a modern jazz sound. The Super 20, which followed the Zephyr and which was basically a Zephyr with an improved mechanism and ergonomics is still one of the most popular vintage saxophones, with a market value second only to the Selmer Mark VI and Balanced and Super Balanced Action saxophones. Zephyr Specials and early Super 20's have elaborate engraving on the bell and keys, and pearls riveted to the key touches. They also featured an underslung octave key. Later models would use the standard top octave key. The most popular and the most sought-after are the SilverSonic models, with sterling silver neck and bell. The Super 20 was not only used by notable jazz players like Charlie Parker, Cannonball Adderley, James Moody and Yusef Lateef, but by many rock, blues and r&b bands of the 50's and 60's.
In the 1980's, King tried to market a Super 21 model, and several prototypes were made, but the market wasn't there so it was discontinued. The Martin company was first founded in Chicago in the 1860's, but when a fire destroyed the factory, John Henry Martin moved to Elkhart, Indiana where he became a foreman for Conn. In 1904 he once again opened his own factory in Elkhart. Martin saxophones are sought-after collectibles, but very underrated in the vintage market, which is good for the buyer.
They are top quality vintage horns that can be had for a bargain. Martin saxophones feature soldered tone holes, which add weight and resonance to the tone.
The tone holes on Martin saxes until the Committee II are beveled. All Martin saxes that I've played have a rich, dark sound, great for jazz or blues. The most popular and sought-after of the Martin saxes is the Committee III line, which simply had 'The Martin' with either Alto, Tenor or Baritone engraved on the bell. Download replmon windows 2008.
Other interesting features of the horn are improved ergonomics and an adjustable thumb-hook which moves up and down rather than side to side, which I find to be a much more practical idea than standard thumb-hooks. They also have beautiful engraving.
In the late 50's Martin released the Magna, which was basically a standard 'The Martin' with sterling silver keys, and a cross on the bell, which I guess was employed to keep vampires away when you soloed. Art Pepper, Tex Benecke and Louis Jordan played Martin saxophones. Just about every major player in the world is using or has used a Selmer Mark VI at some point. It has been called the greatest saxophone ever made, the Rolls-Royce of saxophones. The reason for its success is due to the balance of its ergonomics and sound.
It has a homogenous, slightly dark tone, that can however be shaped by the player, making it a very versatile horn, and balanced with its key ergonomics, made it the most popular saxophone, the most sought after ever made. Its design is now pretty much standard for all modern horns made by manufacturers around the world. Its homogenous but flexible tone lends itself to studio and ensemble work, and just about every jazz player seems to have one. It was designed partly by Marcel Mule, the eminent classical saxophonist. Yet it was never embraced by the classical players to the extant it has with jazz and rock players. Now in my experience, I've played literally hundreds of Mark VI's, and there are large inconsistencies from one to another in terms of tone quality, as most saxophones are anyway.
However, when you find one that sounds and feels right, you really can't go wrong. Those of you who read my review of the Buffet 400 line already know the company's history, so I won't go into it here. What I will go into is that of all manufacturers making saxophones today, Buffet has been at it the longest, building them since 1866, only 20 years after Adolphe Sax patented his invention. They make what are probably the most popular clarinets in the world.
However, for some reason, their saxophones never achieved the recognition or respect of some other makers. This is odd considering that they made and continue to make some of the best saxophones on the market. In fact, the Dynaction, Super Dynaction and S-1 models are said to have even smoother key work than a Selmer, excellent build quality and beautiful complex tone. Perhaps the reason they never caught on is because they have considered more of a classical instrument than a jazz sax.
The fact that they are undervalued in the marketplace means that if you want a fabulous saxophone with great ergonomics, key work and above all sound without breaking the bank as you would for a Mark VI, then you really should be on the lookout for these. I think a little recognition and respect is due these saxophones. There are a few other vintage horns which I tried from smaller companies like SML, Dolnet and Cuesnon. However, I haven't played enough of them to make a fair evaluation like I have the other horns I discussed. However, a Cuesnon alto called the Monopole came into the shop and is being sold at a student sax price. I've been playing it and I am surprised and delighted. It seems to combine design elements of both Conn and Selmer.
King Super 20 Serial Numbers
The tone is light and airy, good for those Desmondesque type solos. In any case, this horn plays and sounds nice, and is had for a real bargain.
While characterized by a shiny bell, intricate key work, neck and an S-shaped curvature, the saxophone has undergone countless design changes and innovations since Adolf Sax invented it in 1846. Over time, many manufacturers have developed their own take on the instrument, and some have proven to be important to the development of the instrument and the music that followed.Below are 10 of the most important saxophone models in its 169 year history, as well as the famous saxophonists who played them. Conn is one of the oldest instrument manufacturers in the United States and first tried its hand at saxophone production in 1888 in Elkhart, Indiana. The Conn New Wonder, introduced in the 1920s, was the brand’s first model of note and was unofficially dubbed “the Chu Berry” after tenor saxophonist Leon ‘Chu’ Berry.In the early ‘30s, Conn began transitioning to the now-famous M series. These horns featured rolled tone holes, low-B and Bb keys on the inside of the bell, previously they were split on different sides, an enlarged pinky spatula for better facility and the underslung octave key.These horns commonly are referred to as the ‘naked lady models’ because of the engraving of a woman on the bell. The Conn M horns were played by the likes of alto saxophonists Charlie Parker and Benny Carter, tenor saxophonists Dexter Gordon and Lester Young, and baritone saxophonists Gerry Mulligan and Harry Carney.The 6M alto, 10M tenor, and 12M baritone were incredibly popular through the late ‘40s until the introduction of the Selmer Mark VI, which proved to be the downfall of Conn and the rise of Selmer as the dominant manufacturer. Conn M saxophones, while often requiring more maintenance than other horns, offer some of the fastest key action you'll find anywhere.
Gus Buescher left Conn in 1894 to form Buescher Manufacturing Co., later renamed Buescher Band Instrument Co., also in Elkhart. Noted for their rich sound, these are the some of the earliest saxophones manufactured in the United States.The first model introduced by the Buesher was the True Tone saxophone, followed by the popular Aristocrat series in the early ‘30s. Sigurd Rascher, author of “Top Tones for the Saxophone,” and a young Sonny Rollins both played on these horns.
In 1941 Buescher introduced its most popular model, the Buescher 400 featuring a recognizable ‘top hat and cane’ engraving on the bell. This horn also is recognizable by its flared bell, rear low-B and Bb keys, and an underslung octave key similar to the King Super 20. Duke Ellington’s lead alto player Johnny Hodges performed throughout his career on the Buescher Aristocrat and 400.Vintage Buescher horns are very similar to vintage Conns, Buescher was a former employee after all, and competed with Conn, Martin and King until the company was acquired by Selmer in 1963.
Although the brand essentially disappeared after its acquisition, these vintage horns are highly valued among saxophonists. After John Henry Martin’s Chicago factory burnt down, he moved to Elkhart and began working for Conn. In 1904 he left Conn and reopened his own Martin factory, also in Elkhart, and first took a stab at saxophone production in 1919 with a model called the Handcraft.
Martin followed that up with several other adventurous models including the Troubadour, Handcraft Imperial, Handcraft Committee, Centennial and the Typewriter, whose keys are just as odd as its name suggests, before releasing its most popular model simply called, The Martin.Introduced in 1945, The Martin saxophone line bears its name beautifully engraved on the bell. Arguably the best designed and most sought after of all the Martin horns, The Martin features an adjustable right-thumb hook, wire key covers, and soldered tone holes adding weight to the horn. These instruments were used by Art Pepper, Louis Jordan and countless blues and R&B players. Has a long and storied history dating back to 1916 when Henderson N. White began making saxophones for World War I era bands.
An important stepping stone for King was its 1935 Zephyr model, which drastically improved intonation and response and served as a template for the Super 20. Eleven years later, the famed alto and tenor King Super 20 models were introduced to great success with the Super 20 baritone following in 1960.Manufactured in Cleveland, Ohio, the early Super 20s are characterized by their generous helping of mother-of-pearl keys, well-designed underslung octave key, double-socket neck, and elaborate circular flares engraved on the low-B and Bb keys. In 1947 silver bells were added as an option on the horns and manufacturing remained consistent until 1965 when company was sold to. As with many instrument models of all types, the early Super 20s (1950-1959) are the most desirable as the quality of materials and manufacturing degraded over time.This was a popular saxophone among many jazz greats, including Charlie Parker, Julian ‘Cannonball’ Adderley, James Moody and Yusef Lateef. King tempted fans with the experimental Super 21 some years after the Super 20 ceased production, but this model never made it past prototypes. The most popular, mystical and sought after of all the vintage horns, the Selmer Mark VI has been played by many of the greats, including John Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, Wayne Shorter, Paul Desmond, Stanley Turrentine and countless others.Selmer always has had a reputation for quality among woodwind players since Henri Selmer founded the company in 1885, and this horn certainly is no exception. The sixth model since Selmer began saxophone production in 1922, the Mark VI followed the blueprint of the Selmer Balanced Action and Super Balanced Action saxophones of the ‘30s and ‘40s.
The Mark VI returned to small-bore design, the key work was rethought to eliminate playing constraint, and the Selmer ‘S’ was engraved on the neck with a blue background, although you’d be hard-pressed to find a Mark VI with the original blue paint still intact.The Mark VI saxophones were designed and manufactured in France and then assembled in the territory they were shipped to resulting in subtle differences from country to country. Many design changes also were enacted during the 20 years of production, leading to inconsistencies across the brand. Even with some imperfect horns in the bunch, the Mark VI is still widely considered the best saxophone ever produced, with many modern manufacturers emulating its design and ergonomics. The Keilwerth Saxophone Company was founded in 1925 by a German craftsman named Julius Keilwerth. Since the start, Keilwerth’s take on the design of a saxophone has been unique and it is clear that there is no attempt to duplicate the Selmer Mark IV or the vintage saxophones of the United States.Developed in 1989, Keilwerth’s in-demand model is the SX90R, available for alto, tenor, and baritone; their SX90 model is available for soprano players. The SX90R is available in a shadow nickel-silver, black nickel, gold, or vintage finish, each offering a distinct sound and visual interpretation.
It’s characterized as a versatile horn with a big sound - not as an instrument specific to jazz or classical genres. The palm keys are adjustable, allowing the player to raise or lower them to their own comfort, a feature unique to Keilwerth.The Keilwerth horns are touted by saxophonists Kirk Whalum, David Liebman, James Moody, Ernie Watts and Ron Blake. With a company history dating back as far as 1893, the Yanagisawa Co. Has garnered a positive reputation in recent years for their dedication to both beauty and craftsmanship. Two of their most popular models are the lacquered brass 991, and the lacquered bronze 992, which was introduced in 1998, both available for soprano, alto, tenor and baritone. The bronze finish typically results in a darker tone, dependent on the player, and both finishes feature beautiful hand engraving.Similar to the Yamaha horns, the Yanagisawa saxophones feature a ‘rocking table’ mechanism for the left pinky keys making facility through those notes easier.
These horns are known for their effortless playability and comfort in the altissimo register.The altos seem to have gained much more popularity than the Yanagisawa tenors as is evident by the roster of artists that play the horns, which includes Antonio Hart, Mark Gross, Tia Fuller and Bruce Williams. It’s really difficult to pick just one of the more modern Selmer Paris saxophones as ‘the one.’ The Selmer Reference, Series II, and Series III saxophones are all well designed, popular models that have been well received by professional saxophonists.Released in 1999 and available for the full line of saxophones, the Selmer Series III was designed as a versatile horn with improvements in timbre, intonation and flexibility, made possible by the advancing technology. This model is used by classical saxophonist Claude Delangle of the Conservatory of Paris and the late Johnny Griffin.Introduced in 2001, the Selmer Reference is a spin on vintage Selmer designs, but benefiting from modern manufacturing capabilities.
The tenor Reference 36 is based on the ’36 Balanced Action, while the tenor and alto Reference 54s are based on the ’54 Mark VI. Its rich sound and vintage aesthetic have made it a very popular choice among collegiate and professional jazz saxophonists alike. Across the full manufacturing spectrum, Yamaha makes some of the most consistent and highest-quality new instruments. They are well engineered and little difference will be found between saxophones of the same line, unlike many of the vintage horns which were produced without such modern technologies. Yamaha introduced the Custom Z and Custom EX in 2002 as an additional professional option to their YAS-62 model.
The Custom Z is a brighter horn and designed for jazz players while the Custom EX was designed for the classical saxophonist. Both are incredibly easy to play.While they are beautiful, durable, and consistent instruments some may argue they lack the character and sound qualities of many vintage saxophones. It should be noted that Yamaha also makes one of the highest quality and affordable student model saxophones on the market, the YAS - 23.Yamaha saxophones are played by Jeff Coffin of the Dave Matthews Band, Phil Woods in his later years, Dave Coz and classical saxophonist Otis Murphy. The youngest of all the companies on this list, P.
Mauriat has been quickly gaining traction since its establishment in 2003. Their saxophones are constructed with high quality brass that is hand hammered in the factory providing the player with beautiful tone and projection.The PMX model is one of their more popular models available for alto (PMXA) and Tenor (PMXT). It is a wonderfully constructed instrument, boasting rolled tone holes with no soldering resulting in better response and intonation, an enlarged hand shaped bell and a vintage retro look. The action of the PMX models is very similar to that of the Selmer Mark VI, but you will find more consistency in the P. Maurait horns due to their modern design and construction.Jazz saxophonists James Carter, Marcus Strickland and Greg Osby all perform on P.
Mauriat.Following Up:It’s important to try several different options, whether it be vintage, new, French or Japanese. Your experiences with a specific saxophone manufacturer may be completely different from that of a colleague. Each model boasts its benefits and suffers from its shortcomings, but it’s important to remember the most important difference, the player! '10 Most Important Saxophone Models' draws from and was informed by following sources:. The Early Years of Saxophone History. Buescher Manufacturing Co. And Buescher Band Instrument Co.
The Buescher Loyalist: History. The Saxophone Corner: Great Vintage Saxophones Part Two.
Saxophone Buyer's Guide. The Saxophone Corner: Saxophone Review: Conn 6M Alto Saxophone.
The Martin Saxophone - One Of The Most Sought After Vintage Brands. H.N. White Saxophones. King Saxophone History: Great Americans. Selmer Mark VI. Selmer Balanced Action.
The Saxophone Family by Selmer Paris. Best. Saxophone.Website.Ever.: Selmer Overview.
Yamaha Custom Z Models. Yanagisawa Saxophones.
Best. Saxophone.Website.Ever.: Are these Horns by Selmer and Yanagisawa All that They’re Cracked Up to Be?. St. Louis Music, P. Mauriat Photos from.
Hnwhite.comSaxophone Serial NumbersImportant facts to consider before you look up yourserial number:King serial numbers are difficult to track due to the different variationsof product changes and the lack of official records. All of the serial numberslisted on this page end when The H. White Company was sold in 1965. After1965, all instruments were manufactured in Eastlake and engraved with 'KingMusical Instruments.'
Special Note: King produced great number of stenciled saxophones.If you serial number does not match up with these numbers, but says 'Madeby The H. White Company' it may of in fact been manufactured by anothermaker.
For more complete information about King saxophones go to.Special Note: Please keep in mind that model changes mightnot have been made to all Saxophones in the production line and may not be respectiveof the true age of your instrument. The following information is to be usedas a guide to narrow down the year your instrument was produced.Special Note: From 1947-1950 Sterling Silver Bell option wasadded to Saxophones. For more information on Silver Bells.Saxophones: DateSerial Number1893-191915-192550,0925-193078,001-1-1935126,001-1-1940161,001-2-1945220,001-2-1950275,001-3-1955305,001-3-1960340,001-3-1965370,001-4-1970406,501-457,600Significant Model Changes to King SaxophonesIntroduced around 1916-1920.Introduced around 1916-1920 with production ending by 1932-1933.Introduced around 1916-1920 with production ending by 1930.Introduced around 1916-1920.' First' introduced around 1916-1920 with production ending by 1932-1933.Introduced around 1916-1920 with production ending by 1932-1933.Introduced in 1924 with production ending by 1932.Around 1930-1932 The New King 'Voll-True' Alto Saxophone replacedthe Alto No.
1004 'Solo Instrument' Saxophone.Around 1933-1934 The New King 'Voll-True II' Alto Saxophone replacedthe first 'Voll-True.' Around 1933-1934 The New King 'Voll-True II' Tenor Saxophone wasintroduced replacing the first No. 1006.Around 1933-1934 The New King 'Voll-True II' Baritone Saxophone wasintroduced replacing the first No. 1007.Around 1936-1937 The King New 'Zephyr' Model Eb Alto was introducedand replaced the 'Voll-True II' No.
1004.Around 1936-1937 The King New 'Zephyr' Model Bb Tenor was introducedand replaced the 'Voll-True II' No. 1006.Around 1936-1937 The King New 'Zephyr' Model Eb Baritone was introducedand replaced the 'Voll-True II' No.
1007.Around 1939-1940 The Zephyr 'Special' Model Alto was introduced anddid not replace The Zephyr but was one step up.Around 1939-1940 The Zephyr 'Special' Model Tenor was introducedand did not replace The Zephyr but was one step up.Around 1945-1947 The King 'Super-20' Alto was introduced and replacedthe Zephyr 'Special' No. 1004-B.Around 1945-1947 The King 'Super-20' Tenor was introduced and replacedthe Zephyr 'Special' No. 1006-B.Production was started around 1960.If you can provide more accurate saxophone informationplease.All the information on this page is compiledby guess work and should be used accordingly.
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Double Reed Accessories. Saxquest Merch Store.Store Information. This is a nice original lacquer King Super 20 alto sax, serial number 402875.
It is one of the later Cleveland OH vintage altos. It show cases a lovely original lacquer finish and the original sterling silver neck with under slung octave key and single socket. The body of the alto is in exceptional physical condition showing some standard playing character.
It has no history of any major repair in the past. No serious dent work and no re-solders. A few smaller dings along the lower bow area have been removed in the past. The original neck is with this sax and is in great shape, it has never been pulled down.